2012 Racing Ideas? You pick!

[boomn29]

I've always got an eye towards the future, so figured I'd kick it open to the group.

What do you think I should do in 2012? Like try something new, more of the same, new events, new tracks, new series, new car?

Note that the NASA Nationals will be back at Mid Ohio in 2012. I think they will head far away (probably Utah) after that.

• TTA with NASA - (again)
• TTS with NASA - bump up 1 class; 8.7:1 power/weight ratio and unlimited mods!
• ST2 with NASA - same as TTS rules; but racing!
• SCCA, Hillclimb, UTCC, Time Attack?
• Venture to Road Atlanta or Watkins Glen or CA tracks.
• Rent some others rides; race/sample/repeat
• Whore myself out as a hotshoe

[boomn29]

Bump for votes.

[LNCRRA1]

on the scca hillclimb thing where would you be racing (all i could find real quick was groups doing the dragon but i didnt see much outside of that)

[boomn29]

on the scca hillclimb thing where would you be racing (all i could find real quick was groups doing the dragon but i didnt see much outside of that)

I really have no idea. The biggest one is obviously PPIHC; but that's a bit much to bite off!

[fixem2@ATK]

Couple of thoughts, seems you are getting pretty good at the tracks around here so venturing to the farther tracks maybe fun, but could increase costs.

If you do really well at Nationals, of course you will, moving to a class or venue would be the next challenge.

Of course, a whole new level of competition in Time Attack or Hill climb, could be tons of fun.

I am not sure how the whoring would go, but I am sure good money could be made! ha ha!

[boomn29]

^^ --> Yeah; towing the car TO the track is my 2nd highest cost after entry fees. 10-12mpg really adds up. Plus the time to drive there and all. Mid Ohio itself is a solid 7.5 hrs each way. That's about 15 hrs towing total and close to $300 in just towing!

I'd like to check out Road Atlanta! Watkins Glen. Back to VIR perhaps.
And NASA has different regions that hit all of the above so I could stick with the same basic TT format if I wanted...

[boomn29]

Playing with the multipliers and possible 2012 racing setups.

ST2 is a racegroup, it mirrors the TTS (Time Trials) ruleset. So I could prep and do both or switch midyear as I work into w2w or whatever. Both are 8.7:1 modified ratios.

ST3 is a rumored racegroup. It's a 10.25:1 modified ratio.

lbs - ST3/245 - ST2/245 - ST2/275
3301 - - 348 - - 418 - - 395
3251 - - 340 - - 406 - - 387
3201 - - 335 - - 400 - - 381
3151 - - 328 - - 391 - - 372
3101 - - 321 - - 382 - - 364

• The numbers across the top (245/275) are the tire size I'd run. You get more hp for smaller tires - less hp for larger ones. The cutoffs are those numbers and smaller so you run the widest you can.
• The weights are post-race minimums. Meaning if you're going out for 30min you need to carry enough fuel (aka ballast weight) to still make your post-race minimum after the race. Same for the 15min TT session.
• The power numbers are dynojet whp. Torque is not checked.
• Unlimited suspension - I'd keep the AST's but probably do some bushings, maybe swaybars, etc. Little stuff.
• Unlimited aero. I could get a better front bumper and do a front splitter; then put my huge Kognition wing back on.

[boomn29]

Playing with the multipliers and possible 2012 racing setups.

ST2 is a racegroup, it mirrors the TTS (Time Trials) ruleset. So I could prep and do both or switch midyear as I work into w2w or whatever. Both are 8.7:1 modified ratios.

NASA ST2 is looking mighty attractive.

I try to watch the Sat race group that includes them (usually codenamed 'Thunder'). This weekend ST2 had 16 entries in class including 3 Evos and an STi; along with a ton of Vettes and a few others.

[boomn29]

Now I'm thinking that racing the Evo (in ST2) just sounds helli-expensive. I'm seeing $6200 in just prepwork that NEEDS to be completed to make my car legal for w2w racing. Some of that could be shaved down buying some used parts, but I don't really like to cut corners much.

And that $6200 would assume I'd be racing the Evo in the exact same form (aero/power) it's sitting right now. And logically I could, if I shaved off some weight, I could probably get to the 8.7:1 power/weight limit for ST2 and be competitive. But realistically I'd want aero and I'd need at least a front splitter to balance out my Kognition wing I already have.

[Boost Addict]

I say Pikes Peak. That would be fun.

[fixem2@ATK]

Agree, this would be a blast!!!

[boomn29]

Anyone know someone that can raceprep the car at a discounted price? The big ticket would be the cage - and it needs to be NASA/SCCA legal of course.

[boomn29]

So the 2012 season is occupying my free time now!

Every year, NASA puts out a set of updated rules. Class rules can change, base classes for certain cars can change and 'mod pts' for various modifications can change. These usually come out in December; sometimes they leak out sooner.

The rules might not affect your car, your class or your setup. Conversely, it could make your 100% legal car illegal for the next year w/o changes! TT or PT - which share the same ruleset with PT being w2w racing - the changes can be much more specific to certain cars. The changes are made in an effort to equalize the field and the pts for modifications as much as possible.

Example:
Changes to a car's baseclass usually only happen to the new ones that they messed up on. For example, the Evo X was initially a B base car just like the Evo IX. When it dominated in 2008, they changed the baseclass to be B* (starting it 7pts higher). Thus it helped equalize it. Make sense? That also made those running that car to the max amount of pts left with a decision to demod or jump a class!


So as I plan out a few different options for 2012, it gets that much more complex. As anyone reading my stuff can tell, I want a car prepped to the ruleset that is 100% legal, but also one that has a legitimate shot at competing in it's chosen class that doesn't cost a bajillion dollars to build or maintain.

So I'm currently planning setup changes to hopefully improve the car for it's current class of TTA as well as TTS (power/weight only) and possibly racing it in either PTA or ST2...

[boomn29]

So the 2012 season is occupying my free time now!

So I'm currently planning setup changes to hopefully improve the car for it's current class of TTA as well as TTS (power/weight only) and possibly racing it in either PTA or ST2...

Whether I race or not; a class like TTS/ST2 where it's completely open to mods can be very enticing. I just have to meet a modified power/weight ratio based on the size tire I run - and I can slide the power/weight up or down to my liking! 95% run in the 3050 - 3301 lb range as anything below that starts to get heavily penalized on low weight; plus would involve a lot of expensive weight reduction components!

TTS/ST2 can definitely be $ though. There's always going to be a part that's a little bit lighter or newer or possibly better out there. Do you buy it, test it, screw it? You know someone will...

In TTS/ST2 you also run into:

1. Full out engine builds. While they are legal, 400whp / 600wtq engines do run - and I'm mostly talking Vettes.
2. Full out developed aero aero
3. Full out carbon fiber bodies - or at least doors, hood, roof, trunk, fenders.
4. Full out developed custom suspension. We're talking 3-way, 4-way, remotes, nitrogen loaded, $7k-15k Penske, JRZ, Moton setups. Not to mention sways, endlinks, axles, lightened & stiffened rotating mass assemblies and every possible bushing upgraded.
5. People running the max 250 lbs of ballast in all the right spots and still on their minimum weight!
6. Vettes, Mustangs, Porsches with 335 Hoosier A6's on 13" wide rims! The Evo can maybe squeeze a 285-295 under stock modified fenders, but nothing past a 10" rim so it won't be ideal. Now per the rules, anything above a 245 or above 275 has to run less HP. But still it's menacing running head-to-head with a 245 tire for example!
7. MORE drivers with teams of people behind them; who never turn a wrench and pay others to.
8. Obviously.... bigger budgets!

[Badog]

You need more sponsors to shell out some $$ to help you out so you don't have to foot the bill

[boomn29]

You need more sponsors to shell out some $$ to help you out so you don't have to foot the bill

You're telling me!

I've had a few of the shops I work with volunteer to help me out in 2012. I know 1 of them specifically just wants me to keep the car and keep it running in events! That stuff helps, but always seem like any discount you get just leads to more spending!

Now if I could just find a straight cash sponsor somehow; it'd be great!

[boomn29]

Playing with the multipliers and possible 2012 racing setups.

ST2 is a racegroup, it mirrors the TTS (Time Trials) ruleset. So I could prep and do both or switch midyear as I work into w2w or whatever. Both are 8.7:1 modified ratios.

lbs - ST2/245 - ST2/275
3301 - - 418 - - 395
3251 - - 406 - - 387
3201 - - 400 - - 381
3151 - - 391 - - 372
3101 - - 382 - - 364

Got a good discussion going with some track friends on another forums. We're argueing over the best setup for ST2 - which is an 8.7:1 modified power/weight ratio w2w racing class in NASA. Your power output depends on your tire width and weight. Above I put down a few examples.

The problems for me is, I'm not sure what weight I'd run not what tire I'd run. But I'd be somewhere in the 364 - 400whp range. And within that range there's probably a few different turbos that would work.
If anyone has any suggestions on say the stock turbo vs the BBK Lite vs the FP White - speak up! Torque, throttle response and AUC is king here - the whp is limited and they are peak DynoJet numbers.

[boomn29]

The more I think about this, the simplest way to setup the car would be to pull out as much weight as I could. I could always add back in ballast in strategic locations (back/middle) if needed. I just dunno how low I can get the car. Currently for TTA, my min weight is 3263 lbs.

I had it around 3190 last year with me in it and low gas.

So for TTS...
I think I could get it down to 3151. With some luck, I wouldn't have to gut the doors or windows for that either. It'd be great if I could find that weight under the dash and in the front of the car! I could then run 372whp on a 275 tire which is close to the power I'm already making! 391whp if I switch down to a 245 tire... which I dunno if I can make that power on the stock turbo.

So for ST2...
Starting at the same 3190, subtract my ~60lb Autopower rollbar, but add in ~150lb rollcage for a net of 3280. In this case I'd pull the window glass (put back in for transport though. I'd also probably gut the doors and everything I could find under the hood and in the engine bay. I would think 3201 would be an easy target. Power could be 381whp or 400whp depending on a 275 or 245 tire. Anything lighter than that and I'd really be hacking things up I think - or buying CF parts which just isn't in the budget.

[Smevans]

Rally America Stage Rally?

[boomn29]

Rally America Stage Rally?

While it'd be cool, it's not really on the radar with this car. I don't want to put it through the forest, rivers and mudd. Different rims, tires and probably lots of underneath shielding would be a must.

[boomn29]

What do you think guys? Should I put a full cage in the Evo and race it wheel-2-wheel next year? It'd be either PTA or more likely ST2 with NASA.

I posted up the same question on the MWE Facebook page, so lemme hear ya...

[fixem2@ATK]

Looking at TTS vs ST2, I am leaning toward TTS. Just seems like the next progression from TTA. ST2 seems like a large jump.

Not that you couldn't be competitive in both!

[boomn29]

Looking at TTS vs ST2, I am leaning toward TTS. Just seems like the next progression from TTA. ST2 seems like a large jump.

Not that you couldn't be competitive in both!

TTS is the next logical progression; yes. It's the next higher class up from TTA. I spent all of 2009 in TTB, split time in 2010 between TTB and TTA. Spent all of 2011 in TTA...

TTB < TTA < TTS

TTA and TTS have the same modified power/weight ratio limit of 8.7:1. Just with TTS you can get there however you want, whatever tire, whatever weight, make the power however you want; unlimited everything! Besides the obvious cost going up with TTS; I can nearly make the 8.7:1 ratio in TTA trim! I just have to do it a certain way... and HAVE to run 3263lbs min.


But w2w racing (ST2) is also the next logical progression overall for me! I've been in TT since early 2008...

[boomn29]

What I could do...

I could go ahead and cage it. Yeah, it's not free, but I could chalk it up to a 'safety mod' in my head. That way it doesn't work into my official budget. I mean c'mon; at Mid Ohio, VIR and Road America I'm doing 140+. Actually it's those 80-100mph blind turns and switchbacks where you try to cut over berms and such that can really upset the car or get it dangerously offline in a hurry! And Mid Ohio is full of those!

The only catch is I can't build in extra attachment points to the chassis or penetrate the firewall. Those 2 pts are explicitly laid out in the TT ruleset (not sure why; extra chassis stiffening I suppose).

[boomn29]

To cage or not to cage... Man...

Really been bouncing back and forth on this issue. My builder of choice wants a deposit asap to secure a spot this winter. I've literally been back and forth (100%) both ways on this decision more than once.

The cost of just the cage is a bit more than an 'Arrive-n-Drive' program for a Spec Miata one weekend. Meaning I could just show up with my helmet and gear and jump in the car and drive. Gas, tires, etc all included.
I see both as lost costs. Meaning I'll never get my $ back out of either.

[fixem2@ATK]

You mention the spec Miata and that actually sounds like a nice direction. Any of the spec series' really lets the driver shine and takes "some" of the car differences out of it.

Wow....tough decision.

[boomn29]

You mention the spec Miata and that actually sounds like a nice direction. Any of the spec series' really lets the driver shine and takes "some" of the car differences out of it.

Wow....tough decision.

Very true. Spec series can get insanely expensive to compete in though, as there is a lot of 'Gray Areas' especially in SM. The saying goes, if there's cheating in F1 they can't catch, there's obviously cheating at our level... Shit happens. But with Spec - like you hinted - the car pretty much is setup from day #1. There's no buying or upgrading or redesigning expensive parts. It's less of a spending war.

And any 'Arrive-n-Drive' program is advantageous. The car is ready, you don't ever have to wrench on it - not the week before and not at the track. If it rains, there's a crew to switch tires for you; etc. Most have in-car radios and will help spot for you, etc.

Just to say; I'm not abandoning the Evo either way. Just another option to have fun with and expand my skillset!

[Chris]

The owner of my dealership races his A4 in the scca STU class. His real love is spec miatas. I hear his miata rules the autobaun country club.

[boomn29]

Here's a regional event pic from the SM (Spec Miata) field. This is T7 at Mid Ohio; which is the first turn off the long backstraight after the start (they use the backstraight for the initial Green flag):

[fixem2@ATK]

Holy crap, that is a huge field!! What a cluster!